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41
Discussions - Public / Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
« Last post by The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 01:05:40 pm »
As far as me not being a nerd - you didn't know me 20+ years ago. Before about 2003 I was as aspie retard as they come. A large part of me still screams that people are always the problem and that things won't come at you by themselves and hurt you for spite but people will do so.

The other big current thread on this site at the thread about men's support forums where we segued into being connected through niche identities is relevant to this thread. Hobbies, pastimes, subject interests, and geek fixations can all be used to create tribal identities. Along with race, national origin, language, and other aspects.

Past military service. Generically it's a pretty good peer group when it's service members from a specific country. Even more social cohesion among members of particular branches of service. And the ultimate social affiliation happens between guys (or women) who were in the same units, squadrons, camps, outposts, etc.

For instance, a video on a Youtube channel I subscribed to about affordable performance cars - the guy has one video where he discusses "normies" or non-car people, people who don't care about performance. He uses the word "normies" and humorously uses a Pepe meme of holding a shotgun at his own head. (He was doing this to segue into discussing budget cars at a certain price point.) In other words, "normies who aren't into cars, kill yourselves." (I laughed my ass off with his performance.)

The point here being that car enthusiasts consider their interest level a sign of distinction and brotherhood.


Many church cultures are quite similar.

Programming can be both like a religion calling as well as a shared interest tribe. Outsiders are considered stupid, unknowledgeable, uncultured, not as worthy, and less-than. The tribalism in programming can extend to programming niches... lightweight vs heavyweight "bare metal" developers.

Or, ideological groupings. I think the Trump presidency and the alt-right galvanized a lot of middle-income and middle class whites into a feeling of belonging and cared for that they get nowhere else. (DON'T turn this into a political thread. Just using as an example.)

Lastly, perception of shared hardship adds a lot of social cohesion. Military is (in my opinion) the absolute tops for this. Blacks and some other minorities may experience fellowship through feeling of shared hardship. Programmers are the grown up equivalent of the nerd's table in the high school cafeteria.

The shared hardship may be a huge barrier to acceptance of an outsider.

Maybe people naturally seek identity thereby inducting themselves into a distinct peer group, for mutual admiration, protection and fellowship.
42
Discussions - Public / Re: Wirecutter.com
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 10:04:34 am »
I have used it for years. I didnt know the NYTimes had bought it. Thanks for sharing.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 09:43:41 am »
I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

I totally claim those characteristics in myself. I am a nerd, I am an original Star Trek fan, although never into D&D which was just starting when I was in high school, and I've had quite odd social skills during my heavy geek phase.

But one has to grow up sometime. And it's completely lazy to refuse to observe how others are living their lives.

And, self awareness is on the way to greater self knowledge. Most people are not self aware.  No growth and no movement is literally the definition of death.

I dont think you are a true nerd. You and I can have a conversation about many things besides IT stuff. Your social skills are fine.

I agree that self awareness is the key to growing. Many people dont want to grow, status quo is good enough and they dont care.
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Discussions - Public / Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
« Last post by The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 08:48:47 am »
I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

I totally claim those characteristics in myself. I am a nerd, I am an original Star Trek fan, although never into D&D which was just starting when I was in high school, and I've had quite odd social skills during my heavy geek phase.

But one has to grow up sometime. And it's completely lazy to refuse to observe how others are living their lives.

And, self awareness is on the way to greater self knowledge. Most people are not self aware.  No growth and no movement is literally the definition of death.
45
Discussions - Public / Wirecutter.com
« Last post by benali72 on May 08, 2018, 07:36:31 am »
The New York TImes has launched a new website called Wirecutter.com.

They have reviews where they identify "The best ____."   Like the best macbook to buy, or the best anti-virus products, or the best camping stove.

They have an interesting business model. They get money when you click on links to buy the stuff they recommend. But also it's pretty clear that they're recommendations are based on serious research, and they are not picking what they consider the best products based on anything other than that research.

IOW, they get paid for their recommendations, but their recommendations are objective.

What do you think of Wirecutter? Anyone looked at it yet?   
46
Discussions - Public / Re: Decline of Geek Online Discussion
« Last post by ilconsiglliere on May 08, 2018, 07:13:34 am »
The problem is people don't really want to talk about anything. For someone to put you on a mailing list and than not give you 2 minutes to take you off says to me MEGA DOUCHE.

I think this board is slowly dying. Not sure what the problem is any more.

I'm thinking at this point that rebooting this board or even trying to pivot as a career changer resource is a waste of time.

The problem I see in our age group (mid 40s and up) in technology people is extreme disengagement. Mental laziness, resignation, not having any focus, being content to molder, not planning anything. I see quite a bit of that with some in this crew here, frankly.

Endless debate and mental masturbation with no action - hallmarks of the lifer techie.

The lack of interest in topics on this board is due to the average technology person looking for a big fat $75/hr and up teat to suckle. No teat, no interest. We don't have high $ contracting to discuss any more. So nobody is interested.

I have one niece approaching 30 with no degree or much business experience, has had many "life problems" involving mumble mumble - you sure as hell would not respect her resume or her, uh, record.

And she is kicking ass as a commissioned furniture sales person and has a side business making floral arrangements for local weddings. She studies the videos of Gary Vaynerchuck for inspiration.

But our age group makes itself useless to ourselves and society through our nihilistic disengagement and expecting to find a perfect career or work-life balance.

I've had work friends my age who loosely fit the profile of members here, and slowly I stop calling them or attempting to socialize. One guy dropped out of programming 16 years ago when he was being harassed OTJ and slowly has lost his marbles... he's no fun to talk to because he's so disengaged, nothing is ever worth any effort to figure out or try for. Another guy, about my age, a tech writer, talked about freelancing, but he acts like setting up a fucking Paypal account is brain surgery he fully intends to get around to one day in a shining future.

It's genuinely depressing trying to inspire interest in people who have embraced giving up as a lifestyle.

If I were to replace this board with a page with a one line message it would say this:

You're a former techie and you're over 50 and jobless? Get off your ass and TRY SOMETHING already. Jesus!

I agree with everything you wrote especially about the disengaged people. I have seen this over and over - people just refuse to adapt and the endless mental masturbation over NOTHING. 

Frankly I have cut most of my former IT people out of my life. Why? Because they bring me down. They are negative and spend enormous amount of time ruminating about the past. THEY WILL SUCK THE LIFE OUT OF YOU. Instead of looking forward and picking themselves up by their bootstraps they are stuck in one place. Things have changed and they wont or cant adapt. Not much else to say.

What many people fail to realize is that there are more than one way to make a living in this world. It doesnt have to be IT or even computer related. I have seen enough people do something totally non-IT related and do great financially that you realize that your life doesnt have to revolve around working for some company sitting behind a computer.

I have never been a true IT nerd. I was never very good at math and was never into some of the hobbies and interests that typical IT people were into. Examples include dungeons and dragons, Star Trek, Star Wars, math, science and all the other things that IT people tend to be into. Many are also addicted to porn.

On top of this they also tend to have odd social skills and many are anti-social.  They would like to interact with NO ONE if they could.

Thats why years ago I realized the chances of IT people organizing against the H1B onslaught was next to impossible. They are quite happy to sit around and debate the H1B forever instead of doing something about it.

IT people should have formed a union/guild or and PAC of their own. But that will NEVER happen the way they are. That ship has sailed, its too late now. On top of this many of them are either libertarian or hyper liberal.

As you said unless you are into what they are into they just dont care about you.

I have an example of this among car guys - I am into VWs for a very long time. Since I was about 20. Never had an air cooled one, mine have all been water cooled. I belong to a few VW car clubs. One of them, their only focus is on the air cooled VWs, NOTHING else. Never mind that VW has not brought an air cooled car into the US since the 70s. They dont care and if you dont have an air cooled VW they ostracize you and dont want to even be friends with you. Thats exactly how IT people are.
47
Discussions - Public / Re: Men's support forums
« Last post by The Gorn on May 08, 2018, 06:48:01 am »
In about five years, I'll be in "your" tribe, but still, it's not that much of a tribe. I'm talking about ALL social aspects of life, not only finding work or access to business opportunities. Just socializing broadly and a feeling of belonging is extremely difficult to achieve when you're in the default gray goo (IE, white) demographic blob. Blacks have quite a bit more social cohesion just due to being black but it's not that much or works that well for them.
48
Discussions - Public / Re: Men's support forums
« Last post by I D Shukhov on May 08, 2018, 05:43:14 am »
As a white Anglo male I am considered far too generic to be a member of a tight-knit social unit. That's opposite your ex's experience. I think that's supposed to be the point of attending things such as church for normies like me, but even that hasn't worked out that way at all for me. I am utterly alone, defending myself against others and groups. So are most while Anglo males. Also I think that cohesion happens with ex-military, again, an experience I lack.

For instance, in my region there is a Hispanic business owner's regional group. I've seen pictures of their events online. Far more interesting and friendly looking than the assholish social climber chamber of commerce I once belonged to.

To be a member of the cultural majority is to be utterly alone, blamed, and isolated. Weirdly.

I've thought this is true for a long time.  It's really ironic that immigrants can be more effective at getting work than native born citizens.  I suppose it shouldn't be surprising because everyone says that networking is the most effective way to look for a job.

There are some definite problems and challenges, though, with being a member of a minority tribe.  Subgroups invariably are formed which we outsiders don't understand.  These subgroups seek to dominate other members within the group because they understand how to, whereas they are less aggressive to members outside the group.  I offer evidence of this with this article from the Washington Post about a local extortion racket:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ms-13-member--known-as-grandpa--accused-of-langley-park-extortion-scheme/2018/04/25/186ec62a-48ba-11e8-8b5a-3b1697adcc2a_story.html

I wouldn't want to join some me-vs-them tribe, like a white supremacist group, but I would like to be in some tribe.  If you live long enough you get to be a member of the default tribe of the elderly.  65+ is 13% of the population (https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf).  Sorry Gorn, you don't qualify to be a member of us.  Not that I suppose you want to. 

49
Discussions - Public / Re: Men's support forums
« Last post by unix on May 08, 2018, 02:29:00 am »
Yes, precisely.
50
Discussions - Public / Re: Men's support forums
« Last post by The Gorn on May 07, 2018, 06:33:19 pm »
Unix, short version: hang it up and expect all males in our culture to be clueless, back stabbing assholes. Unless you have gotten some support from that forum you spoke of, I honestly think you should leave it. They can fuck off. You'll have to try other forums and handpick another that is actually helpful. If it exists.

You brought up an interesting point, the social cohesion of specific immigrant communities and in fact anyone who has a specific point of differentiation. 

I lack any such differentiation. I once thought being smart and geek was such a club membership but even that has turned into such a broad experience that it's utterly generic.

As a white Anglo male I am considered far too generic to be a member of a tight-knit social unit. That's opposite your ex's experience. I think that's supposed to be the point of attending things such as church for normies like me, but even that hasn't worked out that way at all for me. I am utterly alone, defending myself against others and groups. So are most while Anglo males. Also I think that cohesion happens with ex-military, again, an experience I lack.

For instance, in my region there is a Hispanic business owner's regional group. I've seen pictures of their events online. Far more interesting and friendly looking than the assholish social climber chamber of commerce I once belonged to.

To be a member of the cultural majority is to be utterly alone, blamed, and isolated. Weirdly.
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