Author Topic: My expectations from this forum  (Read 174 times)

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 3865
My expectations from this forum
« on: March 04, 2018, 05:39:30 pm »
This is not completely OT.  I think of this forum as a once a week gathering of consultants to engage in shop talk, clients and misc items. Such as the current political climate. Which is really inseparable from the aforementioned issues. Who gets elected and who directs the budget has a direct impact upon your current and future gigs.  Then there is the ever-present H1 Visa issue. That too is political to the Nth degree.

But "shop talk" bores me most of the time, including technical stuff. I am up to my eyeballs in it during the week and after 17:00 hours it's anything but shop talk, please. I suspect 99% of "computer consultants" feel the same way. Who wants to extend the workday to 22:00 hours or so and think about that stuff? Well, the most dedicated, that's who. The rock-star type consultants.

I would rather talk about gardening, V8 chebby engine mods or just some random complaint about something. Usually social or political in nature.

If auto repair mechanics got together on weekends, I doubt very much  they would talk about spark plug gaps or which ratchet is better, snap-on or Craftsman. Usually  such conversations quickly degrade towards obscene subjects. Much as in our case. I think 90% of the stuff posted here over the years has no direct relevance to the field, but that's OK. We do have a common denominator.

I am trying not to think about IT at all after 4:30PM, I mentally and completely check out. If I do, I risk damage to my sanity.  I am just overly, completely saturated in that feces. I need a breath of fresh air. Would you hang out with your co-workers after hours?

*sigh*

I enjoy reading some of the posts here, it's like reading a book at times and you can comment if you have to.  I am also frustrated with the idiot contigent of IT people, they take so little initiative about anything. I don't feel there is a "we", or "us".

I went to this computer consultants meeting when I worked in Milwaukee, it was downright hostile. The vibe was, No, I will not tell you about any clients who engage in X, Y or Z. Let's talk about the current football game on TV (it was in a sports bar setting).  They just royally pissed me off. I was the most junior member there and there were only about 2 people present. Sadly, this is a good representation of the field in general. Nobody collaborates or shares or supports fellow team members. It's lone-wolf type tactic and every man for himself. Even when they do get together, meaningful information exchange stays on a very token level.

A forum such as this one is great in theory and practice. But a local FTF based forum is another good idea if we could exchange clients contacts and info and stuff, something business-oriented and all in the context of a "fun" after hours water cooler type discussion, highly informal. But I don't know anything and even if I did, I could predict their behavior. Which would be downright hostile or resentful.  They literally don't want you to succeed. When I think of such engagements, I think of a watering hole in Africa, you know the type where they set up time-lapse cams. You see zebras fighting lions and elephants for their chance at a limited resource - our field is exactly the same.
The olde Janet's forum was a perfect example of a poisoned water hole that it was.   I got the constant condescending vibe of this F-ing kid, we don't want you to succeed so let's hammer this nail in. *This* forum is better - actually much better. But.

The level of social cohesiveness royally sucks. But I don't think it's a thing that's exclusive to the IT field.   Come to think of it's it's like that in  every field. Plumbers are the same way.  And likely in every country in the world.



« Last Edit: March 04, 2018, 07:17:21 pm by unix »
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22248
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2018, 06:34:32 pm »
Unix, if this thread needs to be private, just let me know. You posted it to the private section. I think it needs more exposure and it's hardly sensitive.

You make many excellent points and they cover a wide range of issues.

One thing that frames your current situation is that you have a job right now and you don't seem to be particularly nervous about replacing it if necessary.

The more nuts and bolts discussions are often going to be initiated by those looking for opportunities, like the current threads about retooling. Also those who actually need to build something for work or for their hobby.

Quote
I went to this computer consultants meeting when I worked in Milwaukee, it was downright hostile. The vibe was, No, I will not tell you about any clients who engage in X, Y or Z. Let's talk about the current football game on TV (it was in a sports bar setting).  They just royally pissed me off. I was the most junior member there and there were only about 2 people present. Sadly, this is a good representation of the field in general. Nobody collaborates or shares or supports fellow team members. It's lone-wolf type tactic and every man for himself. Even when they do get together, meaningful information exchange stays on a very token level.
...
The olde Janet's forum was a perfect example of a poisoned water hole that it was.   I got the constant condescending vibe of this F-ing kid, we don't want you to succeed so let's hammer this nail in. *This* forum is better - actually much better. But.

The level of social cohesiveness royally sucks.

You were quite a different person on Realrates 20 years ago. So was I. You were pretty insecure. I remember many, many threads where you're flailing around because your rate wasn't optimal and you irritated a lot of people on the board with that fixation.

And I did that, too. IT contracting was peaking then, and I think the successful ones generated a ton of envy for their situations. Like, for example, the guy called SAPConsultant.  I'm convinced he lucked into working with SAP at exactly the right time, and then saw abundant contract opportunities in SAP and went for it. (without a FTE job using SAP you'd never learn it unless you could afford expensive training and then was that even available to solo consultants?)

It probably felt really good back then to be billing at $125/hr for months and then talking about it with a group many of whose members hadn't seen half that rate.

But, still. Your comment about the consultants meetup strikes a chord for me.

I talked to a guy at a software conference a few years ago who is based in the area where OH-KY-WV meet. He told me that he and a small coterie of friends he would take a bullet for and vice versa regularly landed lots of medium and long term SW projects for billable rates >= $150. BUT... it was ONLY for those he already knows. No other talent desired, wanted, or able to enter their privileged inner circle. He just shrugged like there were money trees that all you had to do was shake and cash would come falling out.

I didn't even mention to him my interest. I know I would have been treated like an imbecile.

So that guy I spoke with was a total prick, right?

Not really. Most of the IT people I've worked with locally have been at least one of, and usually a combination of several of these traits:

Stupid assholes in general. No common sense, virtue signaling, etc.
Toxic.
Ego maniacs.
Resume padders.
Self important.
Braggarts.
Highly over valuing their worth.
Or hopelessly introverted damaged basket cases.

And not enough technical and other capability to deliver real projects to surmount those issues.

I don't know if I have ever been a star worker in this field, but a star, not even a superstar, is probably a 1 in 30 or 1 in 50 type thing.

So these guys with their closely held consultant's networks are EXTREMELY self protective for a few key reasons, and this is absent the usual human vices of malice, wanting to see others fail, schadenfreude, etc:

1) They don't know that they should trust ANYONE else no matter how good or honest they appear. It's the same problem any business has in hiring but multiplied 1000 fold. If they bring in the wrong new partner their business ALL could be lost irreparably. Because consultants are highly visible to management and management can just say "I don't like those guys anymore, hire someone else."

2) They probably don't have the time, budgets, or extra cash around to fund training, employee positions, etc. So they are never in a position to train up anyone else.

3) These consultants know that all IT people are generally clueless bastards with no emotional intelligence. In particular if they let you know who their client is, you could do ANYTHING: go behind their back, stab them in the back, or even just go back to their client asking about XYZ Boutique Consulting which would cause the client to wonder why they are talking about their business with some random jackoff off the street.

If I were able to generate leads and business opportunities like this I would be completely opaque, too.

Quote
The level of social cohesiveness royally sucks.

We're an industry of stuck up assholes who eat their own. IT based companies are royal and look down on everyone outside them.  IT employees grossly overrate their value.

And each of us suffer exquisitely for it all when we fail to keep pace.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 3865
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2018, 07:19:53 pm »
Chief,
Feel free to move it anywhere. I don't think it needs to be private, you are right.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 3865
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #3 on: March 04, 2018, 07:22:14 pm »
Virtue signaling. LOL I had to look that one up.

Urban dictionary dot com
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 3865
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #4 on: March 04, 2018, 07:26:19 pm »
If I were able to generate leads and business opportunities like this I would be completely opaque, too.

Hm, would you really?
 I am not sure I would. I am kind of an altruist.  But the "big picture" is we are all hurting with this high level of non-cooperation.

I mean, this very forum exists precisely because we do not have enough links or FTF meaningful time. It's a way to supplement reality.  The forum exists because it fills a void. For Gorn, for me, for the other people as well.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.

The Gorn

  • I absolutely DESPISE improvised sulfur-charcoal-salt peter cannons made out of hollow tree branches filled with diamonds as projectiles.
  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 22248
  • Gorn Classic, user of Gornix
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2018, 08:00:28 pm »
If I were able to generate leads and business opportunities like this I would be completely opaque, too.

Hm, would you really?
 I am not sure I would. I am kind of an altruist.  But the "big picture" is we are all hurting with this high level of non-cooperation.

Yes. And if you or I were in that position we would be profoundly foolish to not be very tight lipped.

I absolutely would be closed-lipped about ALL opportunities. Especially with programmer-peers.

Why? I've been reamed/screwed royally when I freely gave referrals for paying work. The last guy I referred into a medium term contract insulted me and badmouthed me to the client. Gleefully, like he got off on screwing me, after I *gave* him paying work.

Example: in 2005 I had lunch with a local guy I met named Doug from the JoS forum. I asked him a few months later when I had developed my own contract opportunity in hand, if he knew any C# / .Net developers.

This guy Warren who he referred to me and sung the praises of,  I passed on to my client.

What happened:

Whenever I worked with this douchbag Warren on the project he constantly took passive aggressive jibes at me. I almost told him to go fuck himself.

The clients started disparaging my work performance and extolled the incredible professionalism of Warren.

I eventually left the project because the clients dogged me so badly.

I told Doug what a dick that Warren was and he acted like I was smoking crack.

I got a sense that Doug and Warren were tight consultant buddies like the ones you or I ran into. They probably got together and laughed at me for being a sucker and giving Warren the project.

Fuck my fellow IT professionals. Except the ones good enough to hang around here.
Gornix is protected by the GPL. *

* Gorn Public License. Duplication by inferior sentient species prohibited.

unix

  • Trusted Member
  • Wise Sage
  • ******
  • Posts: 3865
Re: My expectations from this forum
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2018, 04:04:13 pm »

Yeah, that's how it goes. I hear you loud and clear.

It's hard not to be uber-cynical about shyt these days.

Which we both are. In different ways.
Brawndo. It's got what plants crave.