Author Topic: Men's support forums  (Read 170 times)

unix

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Men's support forums
« on: May 06, 2018, 10:40:46 am »
So I read this man's divorce forum, every time I visit I have a feeling I've swam in a public toilet. One of those outdoor units on a hot summer day. This has been the case for the last 10 years.
There is nowhere near the degree of support, empathy, encouragement that women receive from one another on their support communities that thrive.

There are several members there that are the male version of Debbie the Downer from Saturday Night Life. Only there to tell you how you have no plan, how you screwed up, should have know this or that 8 years ago, etc. - all under the facade of offering "support". And I think he is one of the original members in that community. They are sitting there round the clock doing Debbie the Downer thing. You leave thinking WTF. You leave in worse shape than before.

I really don't know what it is. Envy? that I am about to win the case and they are all stuck with generous 2 weekends per month and a "Thursday dinner"?

I hate to say but men are F** retarded when it comes to mutual support.
Pick any other area it the same holds. Family court or IT consulting.

I am just embarrassed of my own gender. I am. We are men and we are idiots.
Women are superior to us in terms of emotional intelligence, intuition and perception. That is why they win 80% of the time in the family court where brute force IQ that men have does not count whatsoever.



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JoFrance

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2018, 12:18:30 pm »
I think most men have a hard time being emotionally supportive of other men or even expressing their emotions to them.  Maybe needing support is seen as a sign of weakness to them.  A lot of men were brought up to suppress their emotional side, which I think is a mistake and sad for them. 

Geez, unix, that support group sucks.  You might be better off finding a divorce support group that isn't defined by gender; like a support group for people that got screwed by their divorce.  There are women out there that will empathize with your situation.  Men behave differently in a mixed forum.  There's not so much bravado because women are included.




I D Shukhov

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2018, 03:18:23 pm »
There must be a lot of these forums.  Maybe another one would have a more supportive culture.  If you try some others and they're all unfriendly then maybe something F2F, like Meetup, might be better.


unix

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #3 on: May 06, 2018, 03:54:13 pm »
I found a bunch of groups on facebook but they are all not geared towards question/answer format and then the stuff I post will be visible to everyone.
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The Gorn

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #4 on: May 06, 2018, 04:45:54 pm »
Unix nails a social ill 100%. I can't find any flaw with his observations. Quite astute. I think I D S. may have an excellent point about the forum or board culture but the overly critical attack shit is quite common on male dominated IT boards.

Women have a quite different dynamic of being cruel. They are loathe to do so in public (generally.) Women have a thing for public appearances and optics and appearing to stand for virtue and goodness and kindness, even when they are anything but. Their preferred method of attack is stealth, pack mode hunting, and conducted as a covert operation. Women are big into presumed "high ground" posturing, that they stand for some right thing that they must mass together to "fix". Women like to gang up in solidarity over some perceived ill. Example: "The View" members; most feminist studies SJWs.

I think the real problem in most societies is not enough "constructive androgyny". I'll try very hard any more to not let myself be triggered so I can figure out the best response to some crap. Most guys have to save face and constantly do the bullshit "haw haw, I am only into strength"  IQ of 10 approach. Being macho makes you look incredibly stupid.

I'm friendless (very few male friends) specifically because of the posturing and studied stupidity. I have some past work buddies and old school pals that today register to me as adolescent nitwits with absolutely no capability for personal growth. I've grown, they've stayed virtual age 17.

Unix, post on that "support group" how they are abjectly failing at their mission and what a bunch of fucking one dimensional morons they are. Then report back with the results.  >:D
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JoFrance

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #5 on: May 07, 2018, 05:04:40 pm »
Most women are nothing like the harpies on the View.  Women will discuss feelings in depth, something most men will not do.  In a support forum environment, they can have a more sympathetic response because they're more in touch with the feeling side of life.  Feminists have a more SJW or pack mentality, but not all women are feminists.

I think some men don't like to show their softer side because they think it makes them look weak.  It doesn't.  Its sad for them that they can't allow themselves to show their emotion.  I've known a few men like that, as friends.  You would think by what they say, everything is great, except it isn't.  I know it, they know it, but they will not talk about it.

You are an exception, Gorn.  Unix too.  You're both able to talk about your feelings.

The Gorn

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #6 on: May 07, 2018, 05:28:13 pm »
Most women are nothing like the harpies on the View.  Women will discuss feelings in depth, something most men will not do.  In a support forum environment, they can have a more sympathetic response because they're more in touch with the feeling side of life.  Feminists have a more SJW or pack mentality, but not all women are feminists.

Exactly what I'm saying is that women display a sort of "hive mind" social cohesion that men lack.

My experience differs a bit from yours. I'm thinking of the late 90s era "The View" cast with Barbara Walters, before massive political activism everywhere. I dated a gal back then that just ate up the view and its vibe.

When I think of the way most women who are open to each other socialize, I think of "The View". I suspect that is exactly what the producers of The View were going for. A universal adult female bonding vibe.

Remember the nut case that hounded me about the website last year? She was commisserating with two or more women from the same Facebook group who had decided I was unfair to them (each one of them was screwing me around on projects I did for each one.) She had apparently gathered what she considered a lot of ammo - pejorative gossip against me. I can almost see them in a group chat on Facebook affirming each other's hatred and contempt of me. Of course, most women's kaffe klatches are far more benign than that.

Women therefore can be mean in an extremely focused and OCD singled minded way by weaponizing that natural social cohesion. But, unlike men, lacking any rationality. 90% grievance and feeling - driven at the worst.

Women would be far more effective adversaries in argumentation if they could, on average, hold to logic and use facts as the basis for their argumentation.

But then, they would probably lose the blindly self righteousness driven aspect that characterizes angry group thinking women.

Sorry, I hold to what I said. You probably socialize with women who take a much higher ground and have higher than average intelligence.

I'm talking about the average in society.  The dumb assholes from the play-acting freelance copywriter group probably are about average.

I think some men don't like to show their softer side because they think it makes them look weak.  It doesn't.  Its sad for them that they can't allow themselves to show their emotion.  I've known a few men like that, as friends.  You would think by what they say, everything is great, except it isn't.  I know it, they know it, but they will not talk about it.

You are an exception, Gorn.  Unix too.  You're both able to talk about your feelings.

Uhhh. It HAS lead directly many times to my being persecuted in discussions, negotiations, etc for being weak.

Culturally, for men, a high level of coarseness and inability to empathize is directly correlated in society with appearance of strength.

That empathy has definitely never, ever worked to my advantage. Ever. I'd be happier today if I was a dumb stupid bastard like most middle aged men.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2018, 05:43:43 pm by The Gorn »
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unix

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #7 on: May 07, 2018, 05:40:03 pm »
Interesting thoughts. I have to reflect upon this to decide what I think. It kind of sounds reasonable on the surface.
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unix

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #8 on: May 07, 2018, 05:46:02 pm »

As a multicultural kind of person but who has lived here most of his life, I've observed different cultures and how they deal with things.

When I got hit with divorce circa 2010, I struggled through it alone. Not my ex. She plugged into the entire Ruski-Amerikan kommunity in the DC area. Everyone. She badmouthed me at every single step. Her church, the doctor, music teacher, librarian, everyone. And she got "everyone" engaged against me.

We had a drastically different approach to things. With her approach being more effective. Initially. Eventually it backfired, with the minor son hating her guts with a passion for her hatred towards me. My son wants to have nothing to do with the master manipulator.

Watch the movie "Gone Girl" to get an idea of what I am dealing with.
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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2018, 06:33:19 pm »
Unix, short version: hang it up and expect all males in our culture to be clueless, back stabbing assholes. Unless you have gotten some support from that forum you spoke of, I honestly think you should leave it. They can fuck off. You'll have to try other forums and handpick another that is actually helpful. If it exists.

You brought up an interesting point, the social cohesion of specific immigrant communities and in fact anyone who has a specific point of differentiation. 

I lack any such differentiation. I once thought being smart and geek was such a club membership but even that has turned into such a broad experience that it's utterly generic.

As a white Anglo male I am considered far too generic to be a member of a tight-knit social unit. That's opposite your ex's experience. I think that's supposed to be the point of attending things such as church for normies like me, but even that hasn't worked out that way at all for me. I am utterly alone, defending myself against others and groups. So are most while Anglo males. Also I think that cohesion happens with ex-military, again, an experience I lack.

For instance, in my region there is a Hispanic business owner's regional group. I've seen pictures of their events online. Far more interesting and friendly looking than the assholish social climber chamber of commerce I once belonged to.

To be a member of the cultural majority is to be utterly alone, blamed, and isolated. Weirdly.
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unix

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #10 on: May 08, 2018, 02:29:00 am »
Yes, precisely.
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I D Shukhov

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #11 on: May 08, 2018, 05:43:14 am »
As a white Anglo male I am considered far too generic to be a member of a tight-knit social unit. That's opposite your ex's experience. I think that's supposed to be the point of attending things such as church for normies like me, but even that hasn't worked out that way at all for me. I am utterly alone, defending myself against others and groups. So are most while Anglo males. Also I think that cohesion happens with ex-military, again, an experience I lack.

For instance, in my region there is a Hispanic business owner's regional group. I've seen pictures of their events online. Far more interesting and friendly looking than the assholish social climber chamber of commerce I once belonged to.

To be a member of the cultural majority is to be utterly alone, blamed, and isolated. Weirdly.

I've thought this is true for a long time.  It's really ironic that immigrants can be more effective at getting work than native born citizens.  I suppose it shouldn't be surprising because everyone says that networking is the most effective way to look for a job.

There are some definite problems and challenges, though, with being a member of a minority tribe.  Subgroups invariably are formed which we outsiders don't understand.  These subgroups seek to dominate other members within the group because they understand how to, whereas they are less aggressive to members outside the group.  I offer evidence of this with this article from the Washington Post about a local extortion racket:  https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/public-safety/ms-13-member--known-as-grandpa--accused-of-langley-park-extortion-scheme/2018/04/25/186ec62a-48ba-11e8-8b5a-3b1697adcc2a_story.html

I wouldn't want to join some me-vs-them tribe, like a white supremacist group, but I would like to be in some tribe.  If you live long enough you get to be a member of the default tribe of the elderly.  65+ is 13% of the population (https://www.census.gov/prod/cen2010/briefs/c2010br-03.pdf).  Sorry Gorn, you don't qualify to be a member of us.  Not that I suppose you want to. 


The Gorn

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Re: Men's support forums
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2018, 06:48:01 am »
In about five years, I'll be in "your" tribe, but still, it's not that much of a tribe. I'm talking about ALL social aspects of life, not only finding work or access to business opportunities. Just socializing broadly and a feeling of belonging is extremely difficult to achieve when you're in the default gray goo (IE, white) demographic blob. Blacks have quite a bit more social cohesion just due to being black but it's not that much or works that well for them.
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