Poll

Are you working or want to work?

Working, full time either FTE, contractor or full-time self-employed
6 (66.7%)
Working, part time, any of the above (< 30 hours a week)
1 (11.1%)
Not working, but want to work and am actively looking (officially unemployed)
0 (0%)
Not working, but want to work, but am not looking (officially not in the workforce)
2 (22.2%)
Fully retired
0 (0%)

Total Members Voted: 9

Author Topic: Work Status  (Read 467 times)

I D Shukhov

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Work Status
« on: January 06, 2017, 05:52:02 pm »
Just wondering what everyone's current situation is.  I'm currently not working, have decided I can't afford to stay retired and have begun to figure out how I can return to work.  I'm no longer a member of the prime working age men without work cohort much discussed in the news recently (e.g. http://time.com/4504004/men-without-work/).  But I do kind of feel an affinity with that group and can understand why a person would not want to work.

I'm going to have to soon upgrade my status to unemployed.  I wonder how I tell the government that's what I am?


« Last Edit: January 06, 2017, 06:24:59 pm by I D Shukhov »

unix

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #1 on: January 06, 2017, 08:34:15 pm »
You know, anyone can go from one category to another in a nanosecond.

IT is a kill zone.
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Code Refugee

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #2 on: January 07, 2017, 06:23:52 am »
Definitely true. Been through this routine a few times. Desk phone rings. Hm, no one ever calls my extension. Boss says, "Refugee, would you please come join me in VP Smith's office for a moment." Uh oh. I slip my personal belongings into my jacket pocket since I know this will be the last time I'll see the inside of my office.

datagirl

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #3 on: January 07, 2017, 09:24:26 am »
Our state employment office has it's own database of openings and serves as a clearinghouse for big projects or employers who don't want to go through public postings.  I find it a good place to start to get an idea of what skillsets employers are seeking.  I'm gearing up to visit the local office to see how to get hired at the new amusement park that is under construction near me.  Would prefer a back office role, but willing to do a public facing job, if that's all that's available.

Otherwise, I'm just an unpaid family caregiver.

I D Shukhov

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #4 on: January 07, 2017, 11:09:18 am »
Otherwise, I'm just an unpaid family caregiver.
That's always been a problem for those who account for labor.  Real work gets done, which can be easily valued based on what the market rate is for home health aides, nannies and house cleaners, but it's not officially recognized.


David Randolph

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #5 on: January 09, 2017, 07:31:34 am »
As the business owner, even when I do not have paying clients, I always have something to do. Such as:

1. Marketing.
Get the word out to several hundred more potential clients that I can solve their problems.
Go to events where potential clients might show up.
Dream up ways to show other vertical markets that they need me.
Go to the library and get other contact lists of businesses.

2. Work on the web site

3. Work on in house projects that might lead to being able to solve other client's problems. (Such as last year, a client asked for the Microsoft Reporting system to be on their web site. Since I had done everything in MVC, that wasn't available. With the new version of .NET and MVC, it is supposed to be. Now, can I test it out?)

4. Research other issues such as mobile development or the JavaScript libraries/frameworks

I D Shukhov

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2017, 03:10:00 am »
^
Thanks.  I've bookmarked this example of how someone stays self-directed.


JoFrance

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2017, 03:42:58 pm »
I voted not working, but want to work, but am not looking, so I'm not in the workforce.    I can survive for a couple of years until I go on SS, but its just surviving.  I'd like to make some money again so I can pay down some debt and have a little extra.

I can relate to the men without work article.   Decent jobs are very hard to find in many areas of the country and especially hard the older you get.   I know I'll never work in computers again.  I've been out of the network admin field for 4 years so thats the kiss of death.  Plus, I worked for lawyers.  What was I thinking?

I don't know what I will do for a job in the future or where I will fit, but I'm not going back to that world.

unix

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2017, 04:29:25 pm »
Good for you, you sound happy nevertheless..
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I D Shukhov

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2017, 05:36:43 pm »
I know I'll never work in computers again...

I don' t think that necessarily has to be true.   There's competition everywhere now for everything.  I doubt if one can pick any field and find it easy going.

But just because something is hard, it doesn't mean it's impossible.  Just that we have to step up our marketing game...

My nextdoor neighbor, who moved in a couple of years ago, is a software developer and works for a big company that does government contracting.  She's lives alone and looks older than me, which is old!   She's not very friendly.  During one of the 2 or 3 conversations I've had with her I asked her how old she was and she gave me a hard look and said, "I never tell anybody how old I am!"

I did a little internet sleuthing about her and found out she's 70!   I see her leave the house every morning around 7:30 and walk to the subway station.  Sometimes she's pulling a small piece of roller luggage behind her.   

I suppose in another life she could have been a bag lady, but in this one she's a software engineer -- and probably a highly paid one given how she's constantly having remodeling work done on her house. 

 



JoFrance

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2017, 12:55:48 pm »
ID, why would you ask her how old she is?  That's not too friendly.  After looking for jobs for a long time, I've totally given up on the computer field.  I've been out of the field too long and my skills can't compete any longer.  My experience means nothing.  If I had known way back then how I would end up in this field, I would have concentrated on more traditional fields like accounting or healthcare instead of computers.


I D Shukhov

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2017, 01:38:01 pm »
ID, why would you ask her how old she is?  That's not too friendly.  After looking for jobs for a long time, I've totally given up on the computer field.  I've been out of the field too long and my skills can't compete any longer.  My experience means nothing.  If I had known way back then how I would end up in this field, I would have concentrated on more traditional fields like accounting or healthcare instead of computers.
I'm always curious about older people working in IT and I was thinking it might lead into a conversation about old people working in IT.  Hey, I'm a computer programmer, I don't have social skills!

I actually tried to switch to accounting around 1979.  I had completed 2 accounting courses and was starting a third when my older brother sneeringly told me I'd be a bean counter.   Plus it was getting a bit boring, so it didn't take much for me to have second thoughts.  Walking around with boxes of punched cards wasn't exactly exciting.  I was working at a navy engineering facility at the time.  I figured the field had potential and took a few computer science courses.  By golly, data structures were kind of cool -- not like the bean-counterish accounting courses.




The Gorn

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2017, 05:54:43 pm »
I D, you need to experience this for yourself.

Polish off your resume - I know you got help on a resume rewrite a few years ago - and start applying for jobs that closely match what you used to do.

See how your experience jibes with the view that it's hard but doable.

Finding an IT role when you haven't been continuously employed in a hot skill area ONLY works in today's market if you're looking for your first job.

There are places for idealism. They are college campuses and Mother Jones magazine.

I know I'll never work in computers again...

I don' t think that necessarily has to be true.   There's competition everywhere now for everything.  I doubt if one can pick any field and find it easy going.

But just because something is hard, it doesn't mean it's impossible.  Just that we have to step up our marketing game...

It makes life so difficult to try to deal with this shit head-on that you HATE LIFE as a direct result of trying to break these barriers or to escape being marginalized.

It's honestly like trying to swim your way out of a whirlpool. The downward pressure is the disbelief of everyone around you that you are worth keeping around to contribute.

After awhile you realize - just fuck these nasty, zero sum assholes who control IT work environments. That was the conclusion I reached years ago. IT people are emotionally stunted fucking dickheads.

Jo has "field experience" with this set of facts. So do I. What I found through experience is that:

- Your age based advantages are ALWAYS used against you rhetorically in any professional interaction in IT if you attempt to mine your past experience. ALWAYS. "You're the old turd who always says that."

- There is so much competition for so few decent IT roles that ANYTHING counts against you, including lack of pin-point focus on specific buzzwords, or the interview just plain not liking you very much.

- Regarding tech skills, again, when you are well past entry level there is no career amnesty for re-tooling.

My nextdoor neighbor, who moved in a couple of years ago, is a software developer and works for a big company that does government contracting.  She's lives alone and looks older than me, which is old!   She's not very friendly.  During one of the 2 or 3 conversations I've had with her I asked her how old she was and she gave me a hard look and said, "I never tell anybody how old I am!"

I did a little internet sleuthing about her and found out she's 70!   

No shit she's unfriendly, Sherlock.  >:D

She probably has to run political defense every day she's on the job. Or, she views the job as pure gravy and would be comfortable if it ended tomorrow. One or the other, I'm betting.

ID, why would you ask her how old she is?  That's not too friendly.  After looking for jobs for a long time, I've totally given up on the computer field.  I've been out of the field too long and my skills can't compete any longer.  My experience means nothing.  If I had known way back then how I would end up in this field, I would have concentrated on more traditional fields like accounting or healthcare instead of computers.
I'm always curious about older people working in IT and I was thinking it might lead into a conversation about old people working in IT.  Hey, I'm a computer programmer, I don't have social skills!

Again, no kidding... I did a facepalm on your question.

Jo's experience and take on the industry matches mine to a T. Perm jobs and VLT contract roles are a thing for memories.
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unix

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2017, 06:43:53 pm »
My situation is best summed up by the Papillion ending.

"Hey you bastards, I am still here"

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/4XGWXmxmaoE" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/4XGWXmxmaoE</a>


And the following, even though somewhat outside the scope of the question, is not completely off-target.

It does articulate fairly well how I feel.

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/IuUW6BTE3FQ" target="_blank" class="new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/IuUW6BTE3FQ</a>





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I D Shukhov

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Re: Work Status
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2017, 06:06:13 am »
I D, you need to experience this for yourself.
What makes you think I haven't experienced it?

I was 61 when I left the workforce, so that means 20+ years of dealing with ageism.  I often worked in computer rooms with men much younger than myself, and I think you know how that goes.

I was forced out after coming up to speed and performing on 17 work assignments for 3 major company projects in 2 years.  When they finally saw I wasn't going to quit I was included in a mass layoff.

I interviewed for at least 6 jobs within the company during those two years where the reqs closely matched my skills and couldn't transfer anywhere.  I actually did get a formal offer from one group and it was retracted.

There are several reasons why I was trying to hold out hope for further work in IT.

1) I had been a computer programmer for 34 years and I have an M.S. in Computer Science, so that's a lot of investment.   It may not mean anything, but it means a lot to me.

2) Much of my work experience *was* in big software engineering environments and I keep thinking there may be some other environments -- smaller,with older people -- that might be more feasible to work in.

You constantly write, as do others on this board, about the 100% impossibility of  working in IT.  It's now dogma on this board.

E.g:

Quote
It makes life so difficult to try to deal with this shit head-on that you HATE LIFE as a direct result of trying to break these barriers or to escape being marginalized.

It's honestly like trying to swim your way out of a whirlpool. The downward pressure is the disbelief of everyone around you that you are worth keeping around to contribute.

After awhile you realize - just fuck these nasty, zero sum assholes who control IT work environments. That was the conclusion I reached years ago. IT people are emotionally stunted fucking dickheads.

Jo has "field experience" with this set of facts. So do I. What I found through experience is that:

- Your age based advantages are ALWAYS used against you rhetorically in any professional interaction in IT if you attempt to mine your past experience. ALWAYS. "You're the old turd who always says that."

- There is so much competition for so few decent IT roles that ANYTHING counts against you, including lack of pin-point focus on specific buzzwords, or the interview just plain not liking you very much.

- Regarding tech skills, again, when you are well past entry level there is no career amnesty for re-tooling.

JoFrance said she wants to work to have a decent standard of living.  Same for me.   People live into their 80s and 90s these days.  It may make sense to throw away a lifetime of working in IT and start over in some completely new field.  You read about this all the time.  OTOH, that's not how things usually work, in nature and life.  Usually there's an evolution based on something that's gone before.

Can we at least start a discussion on the *possibility* of older people working in IT?   What would it take to do it?   Do some targeted marketing to MIS departments in funeral homes?